By Carl Burkart, Director of Student Success and Development

 

In observance of Black History Month, we spoke with David A. Fullard, PhD, Visiting Associate Professor,  about his mentoring, teaching, advocacy for learning, work on decarceration, and leadership of the Black Male Initiative (BMI).  Dr. Fullard holds degrees from the School of Visual Arts, John Jay College for Criminal Justice, and The Union Institute.  He currently directs the Black Male Initiative and Citizens Re-entry programs.

 

The interview below has been edited for clarity and brevity.

Please tell us about your background and how you became a mentor at SUNY Empire State College.

Dr. Fullard: I came to Empire State College when I was working for the New York City Department of Correction on Rikers Island. As a captain, I became interested in how people are educated, and my reason for that was talking to the inmates and asking them, “How did you get here?  You're obviously a smart person. Tell me more about how you got here.”  They would often talk to me about how they never took school seriously.  Many would look at me and say, “I should be where you're at.”  And I would say, “What do you mean by that?”  “I suppose I should be working, you know, as an Officer, as a Drug Treatment Counselor, as something else, because I'm able to do it, but I never took education seriously.”  We would lapse into a conversation about why they never took it seriously and a lot of them did not “fit” into school.  They couldn't find their niche.  They couldn't find someone that would show them the way, so to speak.

Those experiences, combined with my own ambition to create change, started me on a search for colleges I thought would support what I wanted to do.  I talked to more than a few people and they told me about SUNY Empire State College and this crazy experiment of having a mentor who worked one on one with students.  I cold called the College and spoke to Nancy Bunch, then Dean of the Metropolitan Center and said, “Hi, I'm recently graduated with my Ph. D. and I'm interested in doing some teaching. I've done some training at the Correction Academy so I have some ideas about mentoring and teaching.”  She said, “Well, hold on.”  I held on she returned saying, “Can you come in tomorrow for an interview?” So, I came in and actually did the interview.  Present at the interview were Beverly Smirni, Alan Mandell and Lear Matthews, and we had a really interesting talk about what they do as a college and how they work with the students.  It fit snugly into my personality, so I started here as a part-timer in 1998 and became full-time in 2011.  It's been a ball ever since.  The concept of working one-on-one with people, meeting them where they're at and moving forward from that point is extremely important for what I do with all of my students, including those that are in the Black Male Initiative and in the Fortified Classroom.  So that's how I came to be at SUNY Empire State College.

Please tell us a little bit more about your personal approach to mentoring.  How do you work with your primary mentees?

Dr. Fullard: This is a great place that permits mentors to start off with a person where they are, not where you expect them to be. When I'm doing a group study, it's extremely high touch.  In our very first session, I get to know everybody.  We go around the room and we talk about who we are and why we're here.  I ask some questions like: “How is this course going to help you?  What do you see as possible roadblocks during our journey throughout this course?”  I get them to talk about what the roadblocks are from their perspective.  I take note of those things so when they come up, I'm able to support students in overcoming whatever roadblocks they see.  In a group study you have a roomful of people who are all at different levels.  I have to create tools that enable everybody to learn.  For example, let's say I'm teaching a criminology course and there is a particular chapter in the textbook that they're assigned to read, questions they have to answer, and a commentary they have to create based on the reading.  I will also have additional readings covering the exact same topic, but at different reading levels so folks who aren't used to reading very detailed material will have some of the ancillary materials that cover the same topic, but in a different way and at a different level.  Some readings will have bulleted points of the main topics so that everybody gets something out of it.

Writing is an issue at all colleges. I have friends that teach at Harvard, and they complain that the students aren't writing at a college level.  I don't blame the students; I blame the public school systems!  And when I come across someone who has trouble writing, I/we tend to do two things.  We tend to do more talking as in, “Please tell me about your understanding of the chapter.”  When I hear what they have to say, that assures me they both understand and have internalized the material.  When it comes to the writing part again, I often refer them to a writing coach.  In some instances, I will spend time showing them some basic writing techniques and mechanics, and tell them how explaining one’s self on paper is not the same as a spoken explanation.  Everyone has their own way of expressing themselves and when they try to write that way, it often doesn’t work on a college level.  You've got to be able to write at a college level, and that's developmental.  It’s something that folks will learn, and they learn it over time.  And, as I said, we meet them where they're at, so we will pick-up on that and provide them with the services they need to boost their writing levels.

What are some of the courses and independent studies that you teach?
Dr. Fullard: I teach everything in the area of social and behavioral sciences including: intro to Sociology, Intro to Psychology, and intro to Criminal Justice and then we go off into some of the more advanced level courses such as Criminology, or Hostage Negotiations.  There's one course that I created called 10 Questions that really deals with society and all the questions we have in reference to how society functions.  I also teach Forensic Psychology, which is my favorite because I did a lot of that when I was working at Rikers Island.  Of course, I teach Corrections Administration and a host of other similar courses.  If it falls under the social and behavioral sciences, or public affairs, I'm there.

 

What kinds of projects are you working on right now?

Dr. Fullard: I direct the Black Male Initiative (BMI) and that has been operative since 2009. Normally with this particular type of initiative, we get together with the students on the weekends on Saturdays, and we have in-person meetings. Because of the pandemic, we've had to put those in-person meetings off, which was quite painful for me, but necessary for safety reasons. We've moved to an online model which involves a series of virtual conversations and we'll talk about different aspects of Black life in the city and internationally.  We will oftentimes invite a guest speaker to talk about a particular topic and then have a nice long Q&A where members and sometimes guests can ask questions, get answers, make comments, etc. and that has kept us alive and thriving.  It's kept students interested and connected.  My fear with the COVID pandemic was that our students would become disconnected and not as integrated into the College as they had been previously.  The goal of the virtual conversations was to keep them integrated and connected to the college and also to be present.  All of the students have continued to take coursework online or independently.  The same problems they with in person learning they still have when they're online, or doing independent studies.  So, we’re there to assist with those problems.

An integral part of the Black Male Initiative is the Fortified Classroom which is extremely important to me, personally.  When I came here in 1998. I noticed that a lot of Black males did not make it across the stage.  Too many did not do well and I asked: “Do you know what's going on?  Why aren't you able to persist?  Why aren't you able to do well in your studies?  Why aren't you able to graduate?”  Many talked about not being ready and not having enough services to help them with their studies.  As a result, we developed the concept of putting together all of the general education courses that a student has to take in order to graduate from a SUNY institution, and I looked for professors who fed into the ideas of high touch, spending additional time with the students, slowing down the class a bit more so that everybody could get the information, and then infusing each of those classes with a writing and/or a math coach.

This is different than sending a student to a coach. These are coaches that are actually attached to the Fortified Classroom so they know the professor.  They know what books the professor is using.  They know what the assignments are.  They know what the goals of the class are.  When students come to them saying, “I'm having a problem with history; I'm having a problem with math; I'm having a problem with sociology;” the writing coach already knows what is expected of the student and they actually pick up where the professor left off.  They're able to help them with their assignments; help them learn the material better; show them the tricks of the trade; and demonstrate actual tools needed to write well, answer questions and respond to commentary.  Sometimes professors ask students to comment on certain things.  These are folks most often do not read the New York Times and look at the editorial page where people are offering comments.  It may be totally foreign to them, so they're being taught how to do those things and what it means.  And what we've discovered is that when we put all of those pieces in place, students not only are retained—retention is only part of the issue—they're actually able to learn and learn well.  It’s almost totally developmental.  Each class builds on the next, and students are actually able to exponentially write better the next time they're in class.  They carry over, and that's what makes it work.  Oh, there's one other important element to remember.  We, meaning me and everyone involved, share our contact information with our students so that when students have issues, they can actually call anyone of us.  They won't get voicemail; they'll actually get us.  And if they have a quick question, they can get that question answered immediately.  It's a rare occasion when that happens, but they know that it's available and when they have a major problem, or what they see as a major problem, they'll call us.  Most of the time it's not a major problem; it's just something they don't understand.  We’re able to quickly and effectively explain it to them.  They move forward with that explanation and that makes a big difference, so the support aspect is critical.

The other aspect of the program I’m focused on is much more policy related.  I'm working on a blueprint for decarceration from jails and prisons and I'll be doing some of this work with the Rockefeller Center at SUNY.  I'll also be doing some of this with, hopefully, the Rand Corporation.  I’m serving as the expert in this area—30 years on Rikers Island.  I know what the problems are, and I also know what happens when we release people either because their time has run out, or create some other kind of release to keep the population on Rikers low, or lower than what it was.  The problem this is when you release someone, you can't simply release them to the street.  They have to be released to a variety of situations.  That means we're talking about employment, housing and treatment (both mental health and substance abuse treatment).  We’re also talking about support; some kind/s of supportive services. Those are the things that are missing right now. They don't exist. So, I'm creating a blueprint to addresses that which will help correction administrators and city government do this correctly, as opposed to doing it the way they did with the deinstitutionalization of the mental health system, which was a huge debacle.  They just released them.  They were supposed to be released to community services, but those services were few and far between.  The policy I'm creating specifically addresses those issues.

Having worked at Rikers for 30 years, I have seen people that have been discharged and had someone on the outside, and sometimes on the inside, that was actually helping them get a job, or get into college.  That is the solution to part of the problem.  I know people who were able to connect with correctional councils while they were locked up and actually got permission to go out and take the sanitation tests.  And those people got the job!  They don't come back to jail or prison if they're employed because once they're employed, they get married.  They have children.  They have a home. They paying taxes, contribute to Social Security and do what the rest of us do on a daily basis.  Hey, my taxes are too high.  Welcome to the club.  That's what I used to tell them when they looked at their checks, and said, “I had to pay all of these taxes.  And what's this FICA tax?  What's this tax? What's that tax?”  Taxes are welcome to the club.  I tell them that this is what we all go through and they laugh, but they get it.  And that's what makes it work.  They got a job.  They started a family.  It can work.  We know the solutions to the problem.  We just have to implement them and recruit people who are willing to help.

What are some of the events you are involved in for Black History Month?
Dr. Fullard: Black history is so involved and so rich. Most people, unfortunately, only know about Martin Luther King and Malcolm X.  Frederick Douglass is important because I think learning about Douglass and his life will help people understand what it means to be Black in America.  He's an extremely important person in Black history, but a lot of people don't really know much about him.  You can't really talk about American history without talking about Black history.  Yet, in our school systems, they don't really talk much about Black luminaries.  Again, they will talk about Martin Luther King and Malcolm X to a degree.  (Malcom X is not popular school history, but King is).  Everyone needs to know more about some of the luminaries that exist, especially Douglass, because Douglass talked about our history as slaves and what the future can hold for us especially moving forward in the area of education.  I think he's an extremely important luminary in our history.  For the February 26th event, we were fortunate enough to engage Dr. John Hunter, who is an historian specializing in Douglass.  I felt it was important to find someone who could really talk intimately based on their own research and intimate knowledge of Frederick Douglass.

 

You can learn more about the Black History Initiative at https://www.esc.edu/bmi/.  To join the Black Male Initiative’s Virtual Discussion Series: Frederick Douglass: His Life, His Accomplishments, and his Legacy with Dr. John Hunter on February 26, from 12:00 p.m. to 1:00 p.m., please register at https://alumni.esc.edu/get-involved/events.